forum.englishteacher.ru

As for me, I've been studying English for 12 years (10 years at scholl and 2 years at my Univercity).
Unfortunately, my English still leaves much to be desired :(
Now there is no Eglish in my curriculum at University :bn:
So I have to study English by myself. For that I do much: translating Eglish texts, songs, trying to play English versions of computer games, watching English films etc.

And what's doing you?

If you want to have Good English, do grammar.

I agree with you, Scratch. Grammar is very important.

 tsar ,

Your English is not so bad. There are many people who only know a few simple words after 12 years.

Well done, Present Perfect Progressive.  :ay:

You should have used it in the title, too:
How long are have you been studying English?

Thank you for your advise, Erica Blair.
Yes, I know 12 basic tenses and try to use them, but sometimes I do it at an inopportune moment. I'm working over this problem :)

Hi all)
I have been studying English for 3 years seriously, But I have no results(
I have many problems with Grammar)
To solve it I try to translate texts, watch movies, to communicate with other in English and so on)
 FOr me the most advanced way to develop my English  is to watch eng movies and communicate, of course)


sorry for mistakes) I'm just a beginner)

But you do have results. I think you are making good progress, fullfool.  :)
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18EAqHx2lMk

oh, thanks :ah:

hey) i start learning english just like ya all and to achieve this aim i'm trying to watch series in english but with eng subs for the present cause can't get all they talk about and smth more but watching is my major.
it was my test post, plz correct my mistakes so i could get what my skill is xD
see ya)

...so i could get what my skill is like...maybe it's gonna be more correct, maybe not xD

I have started to study English seriously, when I was 14 of age. Before that I didn't like it. I don't know why I do it, it's my mania! I just want to know it completely, understand english speaking people completely. Maybe, I study it too fanatically!

either me) think this wish was inspired into me by my parents but they was like "english is too important to know..."but now i'm learning this one cause i find it so cute, not because of its importance)

I am forty years old and I have been learning English since my schooldays.

There were many breaks in this action. During breaks I had time to forget everything I learnt :):):)
And the next stage began from the beginning. :):)

And according my practice I cat surely say that there is nothing unimportant in the study prosess.
You should pay equal attention to everything: grammar, reading, listening and writing.
My last time of studing English began for monthes ago.

 

I've been studying English for 10 years (at school and then - at university)
But after 4 years break I have difficulties with spoken English and spelling.
I'm seeking for a new job, so I really need good knowledge now.
I decided to take individual lessons with a teacher.
I also read books in original (Maugham, for example) and articles, watch movies (with subs), listen podcasts. But it's still  troubles with speech because I don't have enough practice and companions.
I believe this forum could help )

x0mka, just don't be afraid of speaking English!
What type of movies do you prefer?

Thanks, I'll try )

I prefer movies, which I've seen in russian before.
Last one was Bridget Jones's diary
But now I'm looking for Xmas comedy

Hi!
I've been studying English on my own for 10 + years (I didn't even remember when I started to learn it seriously, but obviously it wasn't at school as I studied German there) and I have no results yet.
Actually I knew in 2 or 3 first years of studying the same I know now and now I just try to not let it down. I just manage to maintain that level of it and while keeping up with grammar I could forget lexicon, when trying to read books I put off the grammar and forget it. When I try to spend time listening to audio or watching movies I could forget both the lexicon and the grammar. My memory isn't enough I think. To download one topic I need to unload another one out of it. :) Am I too old to study or is it kind of psychological problem or nervous (mental) disease? Why could I learn everything I know now in 3 years and couldn't advance now?

If you take to experience of A. J. Hoge from LearnRealEnglish - grammar is not needed at all.

Your method consist from: conversation, conversation and yet again conversation. he just proposes not learn words, but learn phrases.

I can tell.

What you can tell?

You say you can speak good English but don't understand this simple phrase? Look it up in a dIctionary. And  I think you should believe Scratch. Do grammar. You need it badly as far as I can see.

 Maybe you not understand to me. I not say that I good speak English (If that were so, what I was doing here?)

I say, what exist method, that propose learn English without memorize of words and learning of grammar. I like it, because  enough lazy. And I expressed this thought, with wish to read your opinion.

So you think what impossible to learn English without such boring things as swot and grammar?

Or I again not understand somewhere?

You got it absolutely right!

I not agree with you. Though because, what I write here now (on broken English) and read and understand written. But I not swot words and not read grammar.

Maybe my English as yet horrible, but I is not shy this. I go ahead and soon I will speak better and more improve everyday.

But yet yesterday I could not ask you: How are you doing!)

Believe me, if you don't do English Grammar, you will never speak GOOD English. But if it's just OK with you when people understand your broken English, it's up to you. If you don't care what people think of your English, I can say that I'm sorry.

Beilive me - I will do.
Why I such sure? Because I absolutely do not know any rules of Russian and Ukrainian language. Oh yeah! One rule I know! "Жи", "Ши" - пиши с "И". And it's certainly all. Yes, in school I truant lessons, because I think that other things was more important for me. Ok, not important, but I not knew the rules. And not know it now. And obviously - I will not be know it tomorrow.

Nevertheless I have enough rightly to write, at russian and ukrainian language. I know how write this or that word so or so. And I never wrong (almost). It is not because that I know, but because I remember how rightly to write this or that word. My eyes was see it, and my brain to remember it. I have a good visual memory. All is simply. I not need rules or grammar. I need the experience. This is my way.

Why so impossible in english? It is possible - I know.

When I will do to improve my english - all be ok, and as yet I will get practic.

(http://mignews.com.ua/files/pictures/201110/1319784435144.jpg)

For example: this man got very much critic because of your few rough and not classical (according to experts) stile. But he said: "Every man has their way for victory". And he is a champ of world.

Best wishes!

Thanks... But I feel that I was not convince you. And you are leave in your opinion. (not right opinion  8-) :D)

Because I show my thesis in such comparison as, For example: I have a academical musical knowledge from regular education sistem. But in our world exists many musicians who do not have musical education. Absolutely no musical education!

Nevertheless they exist with success.

Most of them have absolutely hearing from the birth. But I do not have it. Because I went and got a regular education. With help of sol-fa (regular sistem too), I improved my hearing to almost highest level. And now, I confidently versed in jazz harmony, only because I have experience of regular mucical education.

It was my way to this. But that no one!

You can't compare learning music and languages. They are different. Learning languages without knowing grammar is a dummy's way of thinking. And never use Mr. Klitchko's name and what he has achieved to substantiate your position. He's hard-working. But according to you, you're lazy. So change yourself and don't waste your time. Do English Grammar and I'm sure you'll be better at English than both brothers together.

I caught you.)

We probably do not have regular musical education and quickly change your position.)

Note please, I not say that impossible to develop musical talent without regular education, conversely! You can do it. Situanion with language absolutely identical. Nothing otherness. Simply other approach.


Yes, I much hard work for getting my musical education - this is been very interesting for me. So I went to such way. Sure, this way more right and solid. And give supplementary opportunity further.

But in learning language I went other way. And this is right too.

Every human makes your choice for themselves based on their characteristics.

Furthermore, earlier were very much people who altogether do not know writting. Nevertheless they was spoken and understand each other.

A little more for support of method "No grammar"



(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/373089_33416011787_1668960959_n.jpg)

If there is one thing life has taught me, its that mistakes are better teacher than school books.

(This is Robert Kiosaki)

What? A picture of a Japanese-looking guy? Are you kidding?

Quite a little).

Are you raly do not know who is Robert Kiosaki?

Perhaps you kidding? If you do not know who that great man, please read this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kiyosaki

So what about early times, when people could not read and could not learn grammar?

How do they communicated?

I know who the guy is. But what does it have to do with English and your plans to learn the language without learning English Grammar?

Nobody is going to believe you, believe me. :) Show us your results and we'll believe. Grammar is not just a set of boring rules — it explains how the language is built and how it functions. Kids acquire this knowledge subconsciously from a lot of everyday practice, but adults have a shorter way — through learning grammar. And if you don't live in an English speaking country, I don't think you have any real alternative to it. Where are you going to get the lot of practice British or American kids have every day? On forums? People simply don't have enough time or interest to chat with you for hours.

Because you've just started, I guess. :) This enthusiasm may get away much sooner than you expect.

You don't need them because you already know both languages. It's a different case. You won't need English grammar rules after you have mastered the language, but you need them to master it. Grammar is just an instrument you use to achieve your goal. As soon as the goal is achieved, you don't need the instrument any more.

All is simply. One of your book named:
Though later, he accept that name of the book were fairly provocative. And it not mean that school is not useful.

Ok! I want to learn like kids!)


If I do it, you will say: "A-a-a... you certainly look to grammar, and not say that it is not")

Apropos, I was to open grammar already repeatedly, but I can't get me to read though one page...

Now I will try yet one... .... .... .... ....

We can want anything, but the real question is what we can do. I guess you are not a little kid now, and you've already lost their ability to acquire language that way. It's not a thing you can have all your life, unfortunately.

But you have an advantage over kids — your intellect. It would be just silly not to use it to make the way shorter.

 
"an advantage over kids — your intellect"
Oops! Some people think that it's our disadvantage 8-) "Be like kids!"
 "to make the way shorter" + and make the way simple = practice. And in one day ... 8-)

Never soon) Because end point very vague)))

You wish!

"In one day" means "за/через один день".

Practice is OK when you already have something to practice. But if your English is bad, you will practice bad English and may end up with a lot of bad habits that will be hard to get rid of. Who will correct your mistakes and how will you understand why it's a mistake if you don't know anything about grammar? Grammar gives you generic rules with which you can correct your English yourself.

Ok!) I must to confess that I little tease people here.) I understand useful of regular education. But I can not to get myself read to grammar. I need to keep interest to english in myself. And for it I not must overdo with grammar).

Also You all a such boring) without life).

Furthermore, I just analysing your answers and posts saw and memorize.

If this no just text, but is live conversation - benefit will be more (I think)

mirock
All of us make their mistakes. No one of us is perfect. Of course it is more interesting to learn English through a live conversation, but for that you need a native English speaker, or else you would learn the same what is written but through other students who are not always good at studying and may mix up something or forget use of some words, etc.
To keep up with a good style in English you need to not only learn the English grammar but to do much more and of course one of those things may be a live conversation. But try to converse with those who knows English better than you and ideally who is a native speaker of English.

I think that you get interested in talks you need to find people who are interested in the same topics and think somehow similarly to you. Then it would be more interesting to communicate with those people.
That is what I think about socializing with people.
Probably you would rather make your own topic where you ask people to discuss something which is closer to you to your thoughts and maybe there are people who think in the same line as you.
Or you can get make yourself involved into some other people's topics, and in that case you would try to read some issues to become familiar with those issues.

But in a live conversation you wouldn't have time for analysis.

Really? You can't even get yourself to read grammar books. Where is your power? :)

But you can't even get yourself to read this topic).

No matter grammar.

What do you mean? Your first post in this thread was about grammar. Go back and see if you don't believe me. :)

to mirock
Ok!) I must to confess that I little tease people here.
[/quote]

I guess teasing somebody was the only goal you wanted to achieve. But you failed. The only thing you are showing off is that you're just a near-sighted illiterate young man who doesn't want to learn beacuse he's too lazy and who is going to get disappointed some day if he doesn't change his mind, stop bullshitting and get busy learning English grammar.

I guess teasing somebody was the only goal you wanted to achieve. But you failed. The only thing you are showing off is that you're just a near-sighted illiterate young man who doesn't want to learn beacuse he's too lazy and who is going to get disappointed some day if he doesn't change his mind, stop bullshitting and get busy learning English grammar.
[/quote]

You such conservative and serious), that I worry about you.

Ok. Let's leave your holy grammar in peace and do not touch its.  :)

Oh sorry, I few confused in mixes of posts)

Hello dear people. I'm glad to speak in English with you))

Tina^)
By Skype?
or by writing posts here?
In this case, please write more so that we could find something to start with :)

tourist, are you all there certainly go crazy from invasions beginners like Tina^ and me?

Just be honest)  :bj:

mirock
I like talking to beginners, honestly.
I do feel like beginner, and I make not less mistakes than beginners. I just like to find some provokative issues on here to discuss and sometimes I like slight jokes and it is often humorous to read beginners's posts and to recall myself and compare with myself now.
I think that you could be right to some extend but not about me.
I like your approach, and what is even more amasing that I thought about such kind of learning English and refused this way as it could be difficult and you would really need to be very smart and you would need to have a very good instinct and a very good memory. It is easier just to make logical conclusions on the basis of my knowledge and experience for me, but I respect your approach and hope you will success soon.
Post here whatever questions you have - you are a really interesting person. I believe the forum needs somebody who would blow life in it :)

So, I want  speaking only here. Also nothing wonderful that I beginner. And also I beginner only that website.

I was try to explore grammar today, this is
intolerable boring for me. Even in difficult musical construction I feeling more confidently, though there all more difficult.

Apropos, yet I communicate with some native English-speaking people and I already seen, that they do not care grammar altogether.

I asked to them about this. Most from them altogether can't say why they speak so or so. And I understand, they speak without thinking. They not pushing them sentence through logical mechanism and because they speak easily.

I want that too. There I deside to believe in my feeling and it say to me what grammar is not basic instrument, as harmony book in music too.

I see to full analogy with music. If you can't feel to music - you not help no clever book. And if you feeling, then yes, is help.

Approximately as.



Yet Thanks for you support! I do. I always get all i want. Why must be otherwise?

Good luck to you in your work!

I know that all be successful.

I beginner too)

Then you must writing more. This is forum but not chat.

I am a beginner. I became to learn English recently. This forum is low active but other all the same.

mirock
Would you mind my intervening?
I am not as good at English as I should be, but sometimes the simplest thing could be seen even by such a looser like me :)


Then you must writEing more. This is A forum but not A chat.

I am a beginner. I've beguncame to learn English recently. This forum is low active but all otherS are the same.

If you wish and consider it helpful, I could make some remarks on your posts.
And please, make remarks to my posts as I never know where I use correct English grammar and where incorrect :)

How come you don't know that about yourself but know about others? ;)

Yuri P

I mean, that I could see incorrect order of words in sentences, but I don't every time know if words are used correctly, and if all prepositions match the wording.
You know such stuff that every word controls or controlled by its own preposition and every idiom can match its own context, thus, I don't remember everything and of course, although I could understand what esl students mean, I couldn't be sure if everything is according to English native's usage. It is tricky. Sometimes people who live in the USA or the UK for 20 more years couldn't tell what is correct in speeches or writings, and I have never been to any English speaking country even for a while.

When you tell me that you don't like something in my writing, I will try to check it by googling or taking examples from dictionaries, but if nobody told me that, I would never care to check because it is too much to check and I would spend not 24 hours per day but 48 if it was possible for it.

I am here to exchange opinions and not to teach. For example, if I doubt in some wording of somebody, I would rather put a question and clarify this, and I'd better ask somebody to correct my writing than just rely on my knowledge.

One more thing: I believe that in the above written you could find at least 5 mistakes, and if you are a native speaker - you would rewrite almost everything because I actually put everything in a Russian manner, i.e., in Runglish, I guess.

Pleace, if you don't mind, give me your corrections to my writing.

tourist

Since I am a native speaker of Russian, I could only give you corrections if you had written in Russian. I agree with you that what is natural English and what isn't is often a mystery to us. We just can't see what is so bad with a phrase that natives don't want to use it, though it is perfectly grammatical.

Btw, look at the count of your posts: it's 1000! Congratulations! :)

Yuri P
Thank you very much.
I haven't strived to collect so many posts, though. I just like to have some simple activities in English and I am very pleased if I could give somebody a useful  hint or a correct answer or just make some corrections/suggestions. And I like following somebody's ideas, questions and comments - I believe I could learn something from them. And it is great fun. :)

How do you assess your English? Have you been studying it for long? I can see your grammar is good - I couldn't give you much help to improve :), however, I believe I could be helpful for some askers.

For long and not for long. Before the Internet era I had no real use for English, so I usually learned it for a month or so and then dropped it for the rest of the year, or something like that. This lasted for years, so now I can't even tell how much time I have actually spent on it.

I can't assess my English properly myself and have never asked a native speaker to do so, but I am pretty sure it's easily understandable. Actually that's what I want it to be. I doubt I will ever go to an English speaking country or even meet a native in Russia (I live in a small town), so my English is mostly written English. I've spent some time on developing my listening, but the result is modest, as there isn't any practical need for it in my life. Speaking is on level zero, to be honest, for the same reason. It takes a real lot of time to succeed in the last two skills, so you need a really strong motivation.

Same here. I have been studying English for too long. And time from time I attended some courses but I could remember from them only what I actually use and I don't remember much theory now, and it's difficult to use some special idioms or spoken phrases. I mostly read books and, though, I could find speaking practice and I occasionally meet native speakers or at least foreigners who speak English, I don't have regular speaking practice. I can speak, however, and rather fluently, though, making a lot of mistakes which could be avoided in writing as I would have a chance to check up my written texts (unfortunately I don't do this every time when I write  - too bad). For several years I have been dreaming of passing any of a Cambridge exam (or any one) to check my level, but I believe I could do it 5 years much better than I can do it now, though I have learned some new material since that time, and forgotten a lot as well :), thus I would need to do thorough preparatory work if I decided to sit an exam now). And actually I figured out that a lot of those with e.g. CAE, though know a lot, could not know something of what I know now and otherwise – what is required to pass that exam is not in need for my English activities in my present life. Of course, I wish I knew more extra things, but sadly it is - I could forget material, which I don't use, very quickly :(
Fortunately I live in a big city and could find at least mormons to speak with, and sadly is that I am not so active that to keep such kind of socializing on regular basis. Additionally, speaking with natives, though useful, sometimes couldn't help in your work, because for your work you would need some specific knowledge which the natives very often in common life (especially the young ones) don't possess. It is interesting that we studied English somehow similarly, at least at the beginning :) 

Yes, that's another important thing. That's why women learn languages faster: they seem to always have something to say to each other (albeit pure nonsense from our point of view). I could probably find someone to talk with on the Internet, as others do, but frankly speaking I just don't know what we could talk about. And to talk about things that don't interest you, just for the sake of learning, feels like a kind of cheating. It's actually not honest. And boring would it be, no doubt. :) So it's just not practical in the long run.

Yuri P
I think I could talk nonsence just let me start :) We can put some efforts to meet somewhere in the internet to talk about any rubish just to practice :) (I did that before by phone :) some time ago )

tourist

Yes, but I couldn't. :) Also I meant talking with a native speaker so that you could hear a natural accent and check yours. But anyway, as I've said already, it's apparently not worth time and effort in my situation. What I need in real life is reading (~95%) and sometimes writing (~5%), and I've mastered both to the extent sufficient for my needs. Or so it seems to me.

Excellent! I pleasure to you for helping and I will try to do less mistakes. If you may - do it further.

This is normal for human nature. I see to mistakes of others too. Though I beginner above beginners.

When I began learn English I proposed my employees to write me in outlook only English. Some who know it good. And this very helped me on start and we will make this further. They were shy show me my mistakes as if this is indecently.

mirock
Thank you. But mind - you are risking. If I became enthusiastic to check up your mistakes, you would start suffering :). And as I told you - I cannot correct all of your mistakes but only some basic one, which I could see clearly. For example, you wrote I can see that something is wrong with the wording, but it is difficult to me to figure it out what is wrong exactly and how to correct.
You use "pleasure" here as a verb, but it is a noun and you shouldn't have used it that way.
Probably "I will be thankful for your help and try to make fewer mistakes"
Maybe it should have been something like "I will be pleased for your help ..."
"I will be glad if you help..."
I am not sure what kind of wording you had in mind.

I  try to make as few correction as possible to eliminate only the basic mistakes, though, there could be more of them.

began to learn
or
began learning
employees - that is when you are a chief than you have your employees, otherwise they are your co-workers or workmates
something: And this helped me very much at the beginning
We will proceed. Or We will do it in future


Good luck!

askers - Do you mean one who asks?

Interesting confusione for me).

Usually, I read without load in translator, since few I few advanced into English. Because I make more mistakes. Sure, I could to write here better, if I before posting, I might loading in translator.

So, when I seen this word - I no doubt translate it as "спрашивающий", but in dictionary such word is no exist!

That is: dictionary is no such word, but I understend it.  :bk: :bk: :bk:  :D :D :D

I don't know, are you agree to me, but this very fun for me).

By the way this situation is not new. I many time understood words who no exist.

Usually, it used native english speakers. They use such words who don't know any dictionary.

Good parse of flying! I will work with it.  ;)

mirock
as to the asker
http://www.multitran.ru/c/m.exe?l1=1&l2=2&s=asker

They use such words that no dictionaries know.

employees - that is when you are a chief (ВОSS) thaЕn you have your employees, otherwise they are your co-workers or workmates

As you can see I make not fewer mistakes, probably they are just more difficult to detect.

In addition: I many time understood words who no exist.

I notice many times that I could understand words, which do not exist.

Then I wrote is correct. I am boss.  8-)  :D

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-vuz2wAhTUk0/TxCZVMEgQVI/AAAAAAAAAuw/KdumOT5dqGE/w250/Thanks-turtle-bro%255B1%255D.gif)
How do you think, what I would to say by this photo?

I give up. :bk: Would you be so kind to explain?

You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.

I do mean that difficult to learn language through communication without communication. Here so little activity, but you all here.

First turtle helps to Second. If It will scratch back of it, then First will be must forgive to Second.

You just don't know this phrase. Look it up in a dictionary.

That is what I asked you earlier about your communication method: where are you going to find the great amount of communication that you need? You want to learn like kids but you are not a kid living in an English speaking country. Your situation is different. That is why you should act differently.

You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.

Ты царапаешь мою спину, я буду царапать твою.

Неправильно?

Нет. Это "чайники" так переводят.

You are understood that I said then, too literally.
Yes, I no kid. but I all the same will be learning without grammar.

Я и есть "чайник".

Точно. И это звание надо нести гордо! Повторяю вопрос Did you look the phrase up in a dictionary?

It give me to abracadabra. If I load whole phrase.

If it translate only "scratch", it have a much variants.

I know that. But then you have to solve the problem of communication. You won't solve it by complaining here about our low activity. Think about how you could do that. Maybe find some other forums in addition to this one, and preferably those where native English speakers discuss topics that are interesting to you. Maybe there are forums with a lot of activity. I've never searched for them, so I can't provide you with any links. Those that I know of discuss grammar, so they are not for you.

What do you mean to complain? It is fact and I have not relation to that. We had a low activity without me too.

No, you don't understand. I haven't problem with seeking resourses with native E, though take Facebook .

That's all exist. And I use it. The fact is that native speakers not best example for learning.

The value of this forum in that here is most people go to direction of speak correctly. They are grammatic oriented.

Natives don't think about that at all.
Most resources for English conversation clogged by different beginners who not give nothing value for learning language.

Of course they don't! They just do speak correctly. They don't confuse Present Continuous and Present Simple, they don't ask anyone to see something instead of asking to look at something. They wouldn't use not + nothing, because they have subconscious knowledge that nothing would be enough. And they don't write value instead of valuable.
And we don't confuse Russian grammar cases. We don't say "Мама мыла рамА".
And here is an example from your final phrase:
You used who instead of which or that, and because of this grammar mistake I thought you spoke nonsense: why should beginners give something for learning languages? It took me a few minutes to understand that it was about those resources. By the way, it should be provide, not give.

to mirock
Ничего, если я по-русски? Просто у меня сложилось впечатление, что вы не всегда понимаете, что вам пишут. А может быть, просто не читаете. То, что вы хотите знать язык, видно невооружённым взглядом. То, что вы хотите быть не как все - снимаю шляпу, сам такой. А мне интересно, вы слова из головы берёте или пользуетесь словарём? Лексика-то у вас очень приличная выскакивает, не каждому чайнику такое по языку. Только смешно фразы компонуются. Самое забавное, что смешно, но понятно. Ваше упорное нежелание заниматься грамматикой понятно, это действительно без привычки нудно и скучно. Но если вы на таком уровне будете всю жизнь говорить, неужели вас это устраивает? Единственное ваше спасение - отъезд в англоговорящую страну. Сейчас же совет найти хорошего преподавателя, который сможет, не пичкая вас постылой грамматикой, натаскивать на правильную речь. Так что желаю вам от всего сердца удачи. Только не думайте, что здесь собрались, как вам показалось, нудные педанты, цель которых плешь проесть у тех, кто приходит за помощью. Мы тоже хотим так оптимизировать процесс освоения иностранных языков, чтобы кайф с самого начала получал и преподаватель, и ученик.

А фраза переводится "Ты мне - я тебе"

The value of this forum is that here most people go to the direction of correct speaking. They are grammatic oriented.

Natives don't think about that at all.
Most resources for English conversation ARE clogged by various beginners who do not give a pinch of snuff for learning the language. (I think he meant something like the following: who are not worth a twopence in helping to learn English (who present no value in helping to learn English))

http://www.multitran.ru/c/m.exe?l1=2&l2=1&s=scratch+my+back+and+I+will+scratch+yours

(скорее имелось в виду что-то типа: who are not worth a twopence in helping to learn English (who present no value in helping to learn English))

Hm, maybe... I guess Mirock will try to explain what he meant to say :)

I think you must agree with me, that I couldn't to translate it with such result never. And dictionary\vocabulary couldn't to help me. That simply need know.

Читаю всё. Кстати всех остальных, кроме Вас понимаю хорошо. Некоторые куски ваших постов бывает трудно понять. Остальные пишут проще для моего уровня восприятия. Кроме того я читаю без словаря, смотрю только отдельные слова которых не знаю.
Когда пишу - словарем тоже стараюсь пользоваться как можно меньше. Те слова и обороты, которые вижу, что буду применять часто - выписываю в свой словарик, у меня есть подборки типовые свои. Заучивать терпения не хватает, но пока записал, пока подглянул - глядишь уже помню. Обычное зубрилово у меня вылетает мнгновенно. Я запоминаю в контексте, часто с первого раза.

Трудно, когда применяются обороты, которые нужно просто знать.

Я понимаю где находится следующий уровень понимания языка. Но мне надо еще на этом побарахтаться.

This is because beginners use to russian logic for english construction.

Yes). This is such period.

Strange. I tried to translate this on multitran. I haven't got such result. But you could.

Я хотел сказать что эти ресурсы наполнены балбесами всех национальностей и учиться у них правильному языку нет смысла.

mirock
That it is what I tried to say by

I typed it by hand, probably there was a kind of mistake in the typing if you tried just to copy-past it?

By the way, I believe you have some practice in speaking English. How much do you have it? Do you use only Skype or any other resources? Do you speak alive with native speakers or students of English?
Would you like to try to have a speaking session with me? (I must, however, confess, that, though, I could speak rather fluently, I make a lot of mistakes and mispronounce words - there is a risk to dump your English altogether)

PS; at all you can say, though it wouldn't sound, I think :)

I read and understand it.

Compare, please and
The meaning is the same, that's true, but some words are written differently


However, if you put it right, you wouldn't miss its meaning anyway

http://www.multitran.ru/c/m.exe?l1=1&l2=2&s=you+scratch+my+back+and+I%27ll+scratch+yours

Unfortunately I have not such practice. I try to begin. But I too long think. Even Skipe cannot to survive this.

As yet I just read.

Maybe I was wrong then. I will do to carefully.

But the goal is to speak, to listen and understand what you hear, and to write
To read it is only a preliminary task
I believe you prepare yourself to speak with people and not to read texts. Or, probably, you are going to get busy with translation work?

My work contacts is basically through letter and Skype (written). But I hope I will be able speak too.

Now I doing exercise for it. But I just began this.

I mean this.
What is it if not a complaint?

Really? Whether there is little activity here or not depends on who estimates it. You are complaining that the activity here is lower than you would like it to be.

But you said you didn't want to think about grammar either. So what's the problem? If you can distinguish natives from learners, as follows from this
then you can choose who to listen to and to learn from.

Then I really don't understand you. The way native speakers speak is the real English language as it actually exists in reality. And you apparently don't need anything else. Your method is to hear how people speak and to see how they write and do the same. No books, no grammar, no rules, only practice. So conversation with native speakers is exactly what you need.

This is no complaint, this is perplexity.


As I understand, you consider that here activity is high?



All is simply. One who wanted to learning like me, must be into medium where are more of grammar-fans. Even such conservative as all here, this is even good.


I am doing.


Yes, exactly what I needed. But not only. Most of them americans. Sure, conversation with them very help to me.

However most of them overly polite. When I ask to them: "How you asses my English?" They are saying: "All Ok, we are understand you very good". Realy critic for benefit is possible only here.

No, I don't consider it to be high. I consider your post that I quoted to be a complaint.

Well, as far as I understood you, you are not going to learn English through someone's assessment but through practice and observation. So again, what's the problem with natives? You need practice and they give it to you. Just pay attention to how they speak — isn't that your method? What else do you want from them? Grammar explanations? No. Then what?

On the other hand, the English that you will find on this forum isn't natural. There are not only grammar mistakes but also mistakes of usage. I am sure some of our sentences will look odd to a native, maybe even ridiculous.

What do you mean by "critic for benefit is possible only here"? What kind of criticism do you expect from us? You don't want to know any rules, and correcting each your mistake individually would be tedious and boring.

Yuri P
I think he meant that Americans would never say that instead of it would be better if it is said
or

I believe that it needs more changing, but at least it isn't appropriate to say very help

And our Gramaticus can give him some corrections and Americans cannot because either they are too polite or they are not interested in grammar :)

He isn't interested in grammar either. All he needs is natural English. Will he find it on Russian forums? Very unlikely.

I just see some inconsistency in what he claims to be his way of learning. To me it's obvious that if you want to learn by observation and imitation, you should go to native speakers of the language because all you need is the language itself in its true, natural form, and not its more or less broken version that you will find on forums like this one.

You called them "asses", so why did you expect some help after that?.. Sorry, I'm just kidding.
I don't believe an American could write "We are understand you very good"

Ok Yuri!) It's no matter already. How difference that we will be discuss. Major is process which gives to me (maybe you too) a practical skill.

I really surprised by yours method of thinking. Ok. If all so, what are you doing here?

 :D I mean asses how оценивать, but you kidding  :D It's good)

Unfortunately all my natives cannot give to me enough of practice. Because I forced to torturing this forum too.

Having fun. :)

Let me give you a piece of grammar advice, however. Don't omit the verb "be". You can do so in Russian, but English doesn't generally allow that.
I am really surprised. If all is so. You are kidding. I am forced. And so on. It's a very bad mistake, so try to avoid it.

By omitting it you change the meaning.
I am surprised = я удивлён.
I surprised = я удивил.

Btw, how would you explain that your observation method didn't work for "be"? We all use it but despite this fact you almost always omit it.

Yes. It is one of my weak spots. These verbs "be" may be such different. And they are everywhere. I am forgetting of it always, when I write quickly.

for оценивать
The word is "assess", there's double "s"

I already seen, thanks. It's simply erratum. Fun.

asses... :D :D :D

mirock
I don't know what you do, maybe you have a good memory, but it seems to me that you have been eliminating your mistakes very fast and becoming a much better user of English, at least in writing. Don't you really use textbooks? Probably you read and learn by heart something to make your writing more decent? If you developed by these strides you would know English very well shortly, I think.
Confess, you have changed your approach, haven't you?

No, unfortunatelly I didn't make myself read grammar, but I looked all videohelpers that could find. Including "Polyglot" on your advice. Thanks.

I go by my old way. I very much read and write on forums, skype, mail and social webs on the english-speaking people, as I can. Maybe this give to me some result, and I was memorizing all this in process of communication and use this further.

I become more free use different words and idioms. But my basic problem is not write and read, I have a troubles just speak and there I very much lag.

Furthermore I print on paper different phrase, idioms, list of irregular verbs and sticked on the wall of my cabinet. So, I see it and memorize. Yet I found tabs of tenses and sticked it too. But there I often confused.

Now I try to speak and memorize all this through speech. As I see that perfectly another matter.

"Office" would be a little bit better or you can use the word "Room" or "study"(this is for a working room at home or for some doctors, etc. I think)

Hi, everybody!
At last I'm back.
When I was creating this topic I didn't expected it would become so popular :)
Thanks for your answers!

I have been studying English for 3 years.Two years by myself and almost year in my university.I listen to audiobooks, music, programms in English.Sometimes I watch movies in English.I  have a lot of pen-pals and write to them.I  have some coursebooks, for example Cutting Edge and Innovations and I would like to train with somebody using these books.Also I  use Round Up so too.

 :bq: :bq: :bq: Congratulations!!! :bp: :bp: :bp:

How your success in English? Have you got help from this forum?

To mirock:

I continue to improve my Eglish. At last I've got English at my univercity in this semester   :bp:

First of all, this forum gives me an opportunity to speak English with live people. I hope I will do it more often and so get an experience in English communication.

speak or write?

First of all, I want to SPEAK English, because I have a great lack in speech practice.
I mean problems appearing when I have to say what I want. I know grammar (at least, I think that I know  :D), but when I want to say something I think much before I do that.

Also I have to write my minds into messages and post them at this forum.

P.S. I've been writing this message about 12 minutes...  :bk:

Hi, tsar! I have problems with speaking English too. I want to speak with you. Please, write me to my e-mail if you want to speak in English.

Most of us have a troubles with a speaking more than writting I think.

And I have. That's why I'm here.

If you need to learn how to write - you have to write a lot, if you need speaking - you have to speak as much as possible - for hours per day, each day, even when you are sleeping - you have to speak in English in your dreams.

If you only think that you need it but don't do any practice, I don't believe you will fast learn to do what you want or need to do.

Start writing right now and start speaking right now.

PS. I spent 2 or 3 minutes for the typing of the message above.

Actually, I have a great desire to learn English and do a lot to improve my English, and an opportunity to communicate on this forum lust helps me to do it.
Learning English had become my hobby since I was a schoolboy.
Also I realize that noone can achive success without hard work.

By the way, I'm against such approach. NO HARD WORK! No torturing yourself. No boring swot.

Than more I go into English. I more and more see that that's right.

"Than" can't be used this way. They use the definite article for this.
The more I go into English, the more and more I see that that's right.
Though I'm not sure about the "go into English" phrase, I mean, its naturalness. Not that I dislike it, I simply don't know.

to mirock - Your English IS getting better. Maybe you ARE right. But it'll take you longer.

The harder you work the deeper you get into English.

Thanks my friends that you corrected me. You might be sure that your efforts helps me.

Anytime, buddy.

Hi to everybody! If you don't mind I'd like to join your discussion board. I study Englsh for enough long time but this process was interrupted many times. Now I want to restart and not to stop it till the end. I mean I need to improve my "colloquial" and "word supply" . One more problem, I have a gaps in some grammar topics.

Yes, I forgot to note that what do I do for learning english. Nothing, I just use my somewhen gained knowledges. With your help I hope to get better results, using additional resources, for sure! :br: 

Welcome, guest30, and don't you think you're a guest on our forum! Make yourself at home.

Dear friends, I looked through almost all your posts and it makes me glad that your debates about "to be grammar or not to be" concluded with decision of helping our "fighter against grammar" that's rather humanistic gesture of yours. To my mind, it's not necessary to speak in english exactly like native speakers do(I mean use various letter eliminations in words, jargonism and etc.), because as you mentioned earlier, it's impossible without living in native language country. And you needn't do it. It's quite enough to express one's opinion literary and correct. English lang. has become a global one, and every country accepting it, learn english accordingly its own native language grammar, and more of it, there is a fact of differ "thinking manner" so english changes and it's unescapable. For example there are Arabian English, American English, British English and so on. People accept these mentioned variants, because these countries have been using english since long ago. Very soon, (this process has started already) english will be exist  in numerous variants where grammar will be the same but it will get individual features related with the mentality of nation that study it. Ok, I'll wait for your correctings, sure you'll find them pretty lot. :bv:

As for me, I've never aspired to speak as native English speakers, this is only some limit and I can just come nearer and nearer to it learning and practicing in English.
I just want to express my minds freely and correctly, and this is my main objective.

Natives don't always speak correctly. We can see this in Russian as well. Sometimes we misunderstand each other because we don't pay enough attention to how we speak or write. Only in Russian it's not so obvious to us. I may think I've understood what the other person said just because they didn't use any unfamiliar words. But actually the message they sent may differ significantly from the message I received. This happens all the time.

In English it gets worse, since we can't be sure we quite know even the meaning of the words that are familiar. At least certainly not in all contexts. Even the simplest, commonest words, let alone idioms and slang. Even a simple sentence made up by a foreigner can make a native speaker laugh because some word is used in the wrong context or in the wrong collocation, which may give comic effect. This is a situation very easy to imagine. We in Russian have a lot of jokes that are based on some play on words.

That all doesn't mean we should avoid using the language, but I think we should avoid putting the cart before the horse by trying to sound "natively" with idioms, slang and deliberately incorrect grammar or spelling. When natives do so, they should know very well what they are doing and what the effect must be, but we can only guess.

I think that if every your word were corrected each time you try to write in English, it would only stop you from writing because it would no longer be fun. For learning, there are textbooks and all that "boring" stuff. Forums are generally not for that. Sometimes I correct a mistake or two when I feel like doing so, especially if it's repeated again and again, but I don't think this should be done systematically.

By the way... Strangely, that all these countries who famous by different things like feminism and fight with other variety discriminations - nothing said about monopoly of English.)

(This was difficult sentence for me, and I don't sure that I wrote it right)

Why? In the end all our learning direct on this - communicate with english speakers. For work or enjoy... and so one.

Maybe, I have expressed incorrectly  :ah:
I meant beautiful literary English and its attributes that I had seen before in old english films.
This level is far away from mine  :br:

 Hello! I started to learn English just few months ago and it is difficultly for me yet. I  going to the course for 1,5 months, but it is not enough.I need to learn english to this summer. How do you think it's really?

It all depends on what you mean by "learn English". Of course it's not anything measurable, so I'm afraid there's no clear answer to your question, even theoretically.

However, your English is not bad already, so I think there's a good chance that you're going to achieve your goal.

 I think that if every your word were corrected each time you try to write in English, it would only stop you from writing because it would no longer be fun.
[/quote]
Actually there was no need to correct "every word" written by be, because everything is not so bad with my English and I think use makes mastery. But nevertheless thanks for preventing me from stopping of writing in english and wishing me have a fun from doing of it.

Apparently this sentence was really rather complicated one for you to express it enough understandable. I couldn't find the relation between feminism and  English monopoly in your context. But if to make a juxtaposion of these two conceptions I'd rather give such explonation. The influence of culture of West civil society, I mean its moral values and life priorities, caused such tendency as "feminism". So they can't protest and be unsatisfied by English monopoly. Surely, it was my subjective point of view.

Of course not. I used the "every word" figuratively, actually meaning "if every your mistake were corrected each time you write". I think it could be demotivating. Though it's probably different with different people.

As for mirock's sentence, I'd recast it this way:
It's strange that all those countries that are famous for things like feminism and fight against various other kinds of discrimination say nothing about the monopoly of English.)

As it's a joke, I think we should't take it too seriously.

All is simply. Feminism is a struggle against monopoly of men. West society apts to fighting with discrimination of different monopoly.

I see you on one hand but from another hand actually, I regard the expression "English ponopoly" is wrong. Why? Because English is necessity of nowdays for every modern man. It  is a requirement of present time and it is necessary for people for themselves, for their  success in career and et cetra and nobody force them to learn it. Yes it can be accepted as form of discrimination, if to think about getting weak of native language role in people's life. So far as namely English is one the important key tools  of global economical and social situation existing in almost  every country of the world then to be against of English for  West  as well,  means to be against of oneself too. I'd like to finish here, because if to continue more and more we can get deeper in policy. As we're neither politicians and even no policy viewers it doesn't  concerns us in our forum's context and also is not related to our general topic . Bye! :br: